Woul

Dear M,

Would:

If the Christian belief in God's conception magic act is actually true, then it is also true that God is the worlds most notorious baby murderer.  

Dear Betsy,

Thank you for taking the time to critique our web site.   You're comment regarding the red herring showed us that we had included only the pro-choice side of this type of argument.   We have corrected that oversight.  Thank you.

With regard to your comment:

"I also do not find support in the argument that reincarnation threatens the anti-abortion campaign."   

The entire anti-abortion campaign is based upon truth of falsehood of God's Conception-Magic Act.°    If reincarnation is true, then God's conception magic act must be false.    If there is no conception magic then the anti-abortion campaign is based on an unprovable fairytale.   We suggest you re-read that page linked above and the page titled:  Another perspective  of God's Conception-Magic Act.°    

With regard to your comment:

"My understanding is that reincarnation meant that life was a cycle. Therefore life would still exist at conception would it not? If terminated before birth, one would still be destroying that particular life regardless of whether or not that eternal divine being would return to the cycle and find new life."

The overwhelming evidence tells us that life is not the physical form; its something that is non-physical and inhabits physical matter.   Please re-read the section titled:   Is life the physical body?  ^°   and the section titled: Why Abortion is a Religious Freedom Issue^°  

With regard to your comment:

"The fallacy termed the slippery slope is also apparent in the religious freedoms message with the six truths. The assumption is made that one event would set off a certain chain of events, which is rarely provable, especially in this extreme example. I found this when it is said "
3) Because acknowledging reincarnation would, a) expose the Pope's infallibility fairytale for what it is, b) acknowledge the Christian Bible as presently written is different from the original text,. c) acknowledge that there is more than one way to interpret the Christian Bible . . . "

The items listed are not a chain of events one following the other.   There is no slippery slope here.   Each item in the above list stands on its own.  We invite you to take this back to your teacher and ask him/her to support or correct your assessment of this section of our web site.

With regard to your comment:

"This particular statement  [the slippery slope]   led me to also question the credibility of this site because it displayed lack of respect by expressing intentional or unintentional ignorance in the wording choice. For example, using the terms infallibility fairytale are misleading. The term infallible is often misunderstood by many to begin with. Accusing a group of intentionally misleading people and then using such words in argumentation is hypocritical. 

How about taking this statement to your English teacher.   What is your message here?   Is the Roman Catholic Pope's  declaration of infallibility anything but a fairytale?    And which side in the forced motherhood war is  intentionally misleading people?  And regarding hypocrisy,  if there was an Academy Award for hypocrisy,  the anti-abortion leaders would win first prize.  Ask your teacher if he/she consider discounting our entire website content based upon your personal opinion of one statement as an example of "the slippery slope?"  

With regard to your comment:

"Finally, I don't see how it is plausible to make this issue a religious rights issue if you are misunderstanding the religions views. More and more these views are becoming based on scientific advances in prenatal care and technology associated with it. Also, generalizing Christian views in saying science and sex are bad is an incorrect generalization and demonstrates misinformation on the part of these websites."

Are you expressing your opinions here or are you expressing facts?   You say:  "if you are misunderstanding the religions views."   The anti-abortion war is not about a view of reality that everybody but you and those who agree with you is misunderstanding.   There are literally thousands of religious views.   Have you read the page titled:? Why Abortion is a Religious Freedom Issue?^° 

This conflict is about freedom,  It's about allowing everybody to have, their own religious beliefs and live by their own beliefs.   Those religious beliefs are about:  "What is life?"  "Is it a cycle that doesn't begin or end but simply changes form?"  "If life begins when does it begins?   etc.   In answering these questions, who has the right to force their beliefs onto someone else?

The science you refer to is about physical matter and biology.  Religion is about who and what a human being is.  We cannot prove anything about God.   To use physical evidence to support beliefs that transcend physical reality is still another false argument.

And one final comment:   Are you responding to our website from a genuine belief that the evidence we present is false or intentionally misleading, or are you reacting to the fact that our web site has rattled your previously unexamined belief system all the way to its core?

Dear M,

Would:

See page 

Dear Robert Cote,

I have read your page and the question I have for you is: Are you even Catholic? If you are, where on Earth have you come up with your hatred towards the Catholic Faith? Your views on "Life" are contrary to the teachings of the Church and what the Church still proclaims today. Life begins at conception period!

The basis of this argument is in the form of a question for you and I would like your response since you seem to know all there is to know about it. When a woman goes in to have an abortion, why is the baby just considered a fetus? If the same pregnant woman is killed by an enraged lover, why is the lover then accused of having killed (two) people? To summarize this in a different manner, why when abortion is the choice of the mother is it just a fetus? But, if the mother decides to have the child is it considered a baby?

Another question for you, which should be easy for you to answer since you have all of the answers is, "what would Jesus say, if he were posed with the question, is it alright to have an abortion?"? What do you suppose he would say?

Your attacks and statements against Archbishop Burke are without fact. They are your feeble attempt at smearing a good man's name. For what outcome? If you knew anything about the Catholic faith, you would know that he's a good man just trying to do his job. Cynical people such as yourself really should study the Bible closer, as well as Canon Law. Archbishop Burke's actions up to this point go hand in hand with the Church's teachings. When you say that Archbishop Burke is cooperating with evil, you in turn are saying that God is evil. You are putting your own soul in mortal danger of eternal damnation. I implore you to truly search your heart and look at your views more closely.

Human beings have been set apart from the rest of God's created life-forms (animals), and have been given the intellect and compassion that no other life-form has. Do you honestly think that those gifts appeared just out of a freak of nature type occurrence? No, they are God given. For all of your statements against a good man and for all of your rhetoric, I find no answers for your beliefs; I find only cynical questions from an individual who is truly lost. Study the Catholic faith from a point of view that empties your mind of all questions. Read the Bible and read Canon Law without a preconceived notion or point of view. Maybe then you will be graced by the Holy Spirit to understand what the meaning of Life is. Come into the "Light" and learn to love your fellow man. Take this as an opportunity to be found by the Holy Spirit. Know that I will pray for you in the week to come, that you will take the opportunity to find God and find the Holy Spirit. Maybe then you will find the answers to the questions you so desperately want to know. Only in God's presence will you ever be given the grace to understand the question "When does life begin?".

Your brother in Christ,

Travis

Dear M,

Would:

X-POP3-Rcpt: robin@pro-truth.net 
To: robert@pro-truth.net 
From: cschroed@uslink.net 
Subject: The Pro-Life Perspective 
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:42:51 US/Central 
X-Mailer: Endymion MailMan Standard Edition v3.0.27 

I was delighted to see that you had provided a venue for the pro-life perspective on your website. I was also pleased to find a website which 
could explain to me, to some degree, the tenacity with which pro-abortionists adhere to their viewpoint. Although you have put the arguments together into one place, I was disappointed to see that you had no surprise arguments which might have given me a little better understanding of your point of view. The only real surprise, I suppose, was your suggestion that pro-life leaders have some ulterior motive forbeing pro-life than that they find it appalling that innocent lives are being destroyed on a daily basis or that it is no gift of choice to tell women that they have the right to decide to kill another human being. 

The reason that I found this last fact interesting, is that it has been my experience in talking to people who held a pro-abortion opinion, that they were usually well-meaning, intelligent individuals who thought they were promoting the rights of women; I had never actually thought of them as paranoid. It seems I'll have to revise my opinion somewhat.

There are two main arguments for the pro-life perspective: one argues 
for the rights of people of all ages, sexes, colours, and cultural backgrounds to live, this being the most basic right available to all humankind. While the right to freedom of choice is extremely important, it is worth nothing in the absence of the right to live. While we may debate ad nauseum the starting point of human life, this debate is an infamously old one. If one wishes to torture Jews, one simply pretends they are less than human; if one wishes to enslave blacks, one has only to provide "proof" that they are less human than their "masters." Ostriches hide their heads in the sand, and shall we too believe that if seeing is believing then it must therefore follow that not seeing is not believing? If an infant lies protected behind its mother's organs shall we believe it is just another organ? How many premature infants do we have to see? How many ultrasounds do we have to see? How many mutilated infant bodies do we have to see to believe that the location of a human being does not decide his or her essential humanity, whether in China or Africa, Germany 
or Poland, the U.S. or Iraq, in jail or free, inside one's mother's uterus or on one's mother's lap. 

The second basic argument from the pro-life perspective is that abortion hurts women. You need not look too far to find women whose very lives were stolen by this so-called gift of choice. Holly Patterson made the news possibly for the first time in her life only a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, this moment of fame occurred posthumously, as she died from taking the RU-486 abortion pill, deemed "safe," as a new "choice" for women. At only 18, she was little more than a child herself, (I wish I could say “living”) proof that abortion hurts women, and that abortion kills the young. To what other group do we give the “choice” of killing another human being? How is this equality? Moreover, I would argue that, more often than not, women are not the ones who make the “choice” of abortion, but instead are bullied into the decision by the father of the child or the woman’s parents, not to mention other, uninvolved individuals who feel it is their duty to encourage abortions. 

I know of a young girl, a friend of my daughter’s, who made the “choice” of abortion. Why? Because her parents said she had to, because her doctor said it was the only thing to do. Though my daughter gave her the choice of giving the child up for adoption—our family would have been very willing to give the child a home, she “decided” to abort the child. One year later, she gave birth to another child; this one, she 
decided to keep. The same causes for her “choice” of abortion were in place the second time around. Abortion solved nothing. At least she had another chance, unlike Holly Patterson.

Putting women in a situation where they feel obligated to murder their own child is surely one of the most cruel and inhumane tortures available in this world. Few women today die from giving birth; see if you can find accurate statistics on the number of women who die from abortion. I know a nurse who tells me there’s a floor in the hospital where she works dedicated to the “complications” of abortions. The “thousands of deaths” from “back alley” abortions has been proven to be a ridiculous exaggeration by the people who made up the statistic in the first place. In addition to the physical torment of abortion, women have to endure the emotional repercussions, which often no one told them to expect. After all, it was just a growth they were having removed, wasn’t it? Who feels emotional loss after losing one’s tonsils, or a tumour, to the surgeon’s knife? 

When you put a real name and face on Roe vs. Wade, you'll find Norma McCorvey, a woman who symbolized the abortion argument with the pseudonym "Roe," who now, thirty years of life later, peels away her fictional self and, in her true self, a real name, a real face, stands up and says she opposes abortion. This is abortion for what it really is—a pretend solution for a hypothetical problem that doesn’t recognize real 
people, real faces, real lives. Abortion purports to help to decrease child abuse—where are those statistics? Abortion claims to solve the problem of starvation and poverty, but why then, in thirty years, has the U.S. not seen an end to poverty? Abortion pretends to give women a choice, but, in fact, it gives men yet more opportunity to abuse women and never have to deal with consequences of their abuse. 

I’ve always found it interesting that so many of the people who argue 
in favour of abortion also tend to oppose the death penalty. Since one of the most familiar “excuses” in support of abortion is the circumstance of rape, let’s review an obvious scenario. A woman is raped. The typical pro-abortionist states that the woman should have the right to kill the innocent child that may be created, but not the guilty man who raped her. Why does shedding innocent blood constitute freedom of choice, while shedding guilty blood does not? Are we back again to arguing that a criminal is human as long as he or she is born, but not human if not? Again, we can argue about who is human if you’d like, but it’s an old argument, as I mentioned before, and it was no more ethical when it referred to people of other colours, religions, or sexes than it has now to do with people of different ages. 

Very early in our lives we learn object permanence—that simply because something is hidden, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Some of us would choose to continue to believe that not seeing is not believing. Yes, that’s a choice. But it’s still wrong.

Thank you!

Catherine

Schroeder

---------------------------------------------

This message was sent using USLink Web-mailhttp://www.uslink.com

Dear M,

Would:

I was 18 when I found out I was pregnant. I am a senior in high school, I was terrified. The guy I had been seeing, Tim, we new each other only 20 minutes before we conceived. He was the first person I told about my pregnancy. At first he denied it and didnt think it was his, then he came around and he was less than helpful. He blamed me for getting pregnant, since I was not using birth control. I told a couple of people at my church about my pregnancy, most of them were supportive, some of them not so supportive. I had insisted that my mother never find out what I had done. I knew she would be disgusted with me and never forgive me. I could not tell her, ever. I thought that abortion would be the best thing. After that, I kind of stopped confiding in people, I did not want them to know my plans. Anyway, I had my heart set on ending my pregnancy one way or another. I was not sure if I could go through with having a surgical abortion, so I started researching ways to "do it yourself." I had this friend I worked with, she said she had a miscarriage by taking some medicine. I was too desparate to ask what it was or what was in it. It was actually Mifeprex, she had gotten her boyfriend to get it for her from the pharmacy he worked at. I asked her how quickly it would work and she said right away, she gave me two, I took them. About 2 days later, I miscarried. I convinced myself and everyone else who knew I was pregnant that I just had a natural miscarriage, something out of my hands. But the truth is, it was all in my hands. I aborted my baby. It has taken me 4 months to come to terms with this. Everytime I look at a baby or see a pregnant woman, my heart breaks. A friend of mine from church just told me that maybe this was suppose to happen and I was suppose to learn a lesson. I did, indeed. But I just wish if this lesson I was suppose to learn, could there have been a less painful way? I have contemplated suicide many times, although I cannot bring myself to actually attempt it. The grief and the guilt just eats at me all the time. I have done this irreparable damage to myself. You hear about girls who've had abortions and they say they feel relieved at first, I dont see how relief could ever be a possible feeling. After I lost my baby I felt a huge emptiness. Like, my soul had been lost with him. I don't know what else to do. I just wish there is some way I could help other girls in my situation so that they wont have to feel the pain that I feel. It is not worth it! If you think about it, its 40 minutes of pleasure, then a lifetime of misery. Who wants to live with that? Sex is so not worth it. I wish I had known that before hand. 

I was 18 when I found out I was pregnant. I am a senior in high school, I was terrified. The guy I had been seeing, Tim, we new each other only 20 minutes before we conceived. He was the first person I told about my pregnancy. At first he denied it and didnt think it was his, then he came around and he was less than helpful. He blamed me for getting pregnant, since I was not using birth control. 

I told a couple of people at my church about my pregnancy, most of them were supportive, some of them not so supportive. I had insisted that my mother never find out what I had done. I knew she would be disgusted with me and never forgive me. I could not tell her, ever. I thought that abortion would be the best thing. After that, I kind of stopped confiding in people, I did not want them to know my plans. Anyway, I had my heart set on ending my pregnancy one way or another. I was not sure if I could go through with having a surgical abortion, so I started researching ways to "do it yourself." I had this friend I worked with, she said she had a miscarriage by taking some medicine. I was too desparate to ask what it was or what was in it. It was actually Mifeprex, she had gotten her boyfriend to get it for her from the pharmacy he worked at. I asked her how quickly it would work and she said right away, she gave me two, I took them. About 2 days later, I miscarried. I convinced myself and everyone else who knew I was pregnant that I just had a natural miscarriage, something out of my hands. 

But the truth is, it was all in my hands. I aborted my baby. It has taken me 4 months to come to terms with this. Everytime I look at a baby or see a pregnant woman, my heart breaks. A friend of mine from church just told me that maybe this was suppose to happen and I was suppose to learn a lesson. I did, indeed. But I just wish if this lesson I was suppose to learn, could there have been a less painful way? I have contemplated suicide many times, although I cannot bring myself to actually attempt it. The grief and the guilt just eats at me all the time. I have done this irreparable damage to myself. You hear about girls who've had abortions and they say they feel relieved at first, I dont see how relief could ever be a possible feeling. After I lost my baby I felt a huge emptiness. Like, my soul had been lost with him. I don't know what else to do. I just wish there is some way I could help other girls in my situation so that they wont have to feel the pain that I feel. It is not worth it! If you think about it, its 40 minutes of pleasure, then a lifetime of misery. Who wants to live with that? Sex is so not worth it. I wish I had known that before hand. 

Dear M,

Would:

Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by Vanessa  on Friday, May 21, 2004 at 02:44:50

real name:               Vanessa

address:                 flutterby5678@hotmail.com

text field topic:     None

message area:        You say you want separate the Bible from abortion yet you quote it's very words, or should I say misquote! You use the Bible that always look to preserve life and twist it to suit yourself. If you look at it in it's inteirety, you will see that you hav misquoted. If you don't want to bring religion into your beliefs then don't quote religious books or use them to back up your theories.

Jeremiah 1:5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew [ 1:5 Or [ chose ] ] you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." 

What about quoting THAT verse. That before you are even born, you already have a purpose. 

You say that these Pro-Abortionists may possibly be wrong, and maybe they don't hit the mark 100% of then time, but there is also a chance that you may be wrong too! 

Just a challenge!